Avantone MixCubes misljenje...

[Bitch]

Fodluka?


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[MD]

Ja bas ne bi rekao da ovi avantoni zvuce kao "losi zvucnici" ili kako ce se nesto cuti na "losim zvucnicima"... imaju jako cist srednji opseg, dosta su glasni i ja mislim da su super za gitarsku glazbu. Recimo puno lakse je srediti ili cuti sto su dobre metal gitare na njima nego ovim raznim "hi-fi" monitorima... S druge strane, dosta su i kriticni. Kad pretjeras s midrangeom jasno se cuje, kad ga fali opet se cuje...
Nakon dosta slusanja na njima prebacim na Adam ili Dynaudio (doduse A7 i bm6a a ne neke jace modele) i ovi drugi zvucnici mi zvuce kao da imaju madrac preko sebe te mi se cini da se ne moze miksati na njima, potpuno sto bi se reklo scooped. A recimo kad prebacim na Genelec 1031a i ne skuzim toliko drasticnu razliku u tom midrangeu samo osjecaj da sam prebacio na vece zvucnike. Cini mi se da u tom midrangeu na njima nista ne fali i da to sto reproduciraju rade dobro za razliku od jeftinijih monitora...

Meni osobno jednostavno odgovara takav tip zvuka, mozda je samo stvar mog ukusa...
S druge strane, mislim i da su korisni bas za mix jer iako ograniceni u frekvencijama, opet vrhunske produkcije na njima zvuce kompaktno i vrhunski. Ne fali nista, sve je prisutno i zvuci kako treba. Ponajvise korisno za bas gitaru ili kick... a i za neke opce levele, jasnije se osjete temeljne frekvencije dobosa, vokala itd... stereo slika je fantasticna isto tako...

Uglavnom, nije mi jasno zasto ljudi ovo smatraju monitorima koji zvuce "uzasno".

[radijator1]

Originally Posted by Moritz

Ni od Fostexa neces dobiti ono sto zelis, a zelis Auratone.

A drugo, mislim da je vreme da se manemo starih navika od pre 15-20 godina jer niko vise u kuci nema mali krdzavi tranzistor, pa da nam to bude referenca da ako tu dobro zvuci onda ce svuda.

Danas kada imas za 50 eura ceo DVD 5.1 sistem koji svira od MP3 do wav-a mislim da je suludo vise o tome diskutovati.

Stalno smo kontradiktorni - hocemo HiEnd Audio a sa druge strane MP3 i krdzavi mali zvucnici...jednostavno ne ide.


I na kraju svega, zbog cega bi davao par stotina eura da bi imao lo fi zvuk kada to isto mozes dobiti od cige na najlon pijaci za 200 dinara ?...ako je samo zbog imena i shminke onda ok, ince ne vidim drugu svrhu.

xxx

[Bitch]

Originally Posted by radijator1

Mislim da nisi upravu i da pogresno savjetujes covjeka.Avantone su odlicni zvucnici i postali su nekakav standard.

Kakav standard?

Originally Posted by radijator1

Na njima se cuje upravo ono sto nemozes cuti sa nekim drugim izvorom.

Kao na primer sta?


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[DzoniPFC]

Sto se tice Avantone kutijica, zanimljiv tekst sa soundonsound foruma. (uglavnom svima poznata stvar ali ok)

MixCubes were designed from the ground up to be deadly accurate TOOLS FOR PROFESSIONALS. We spent over 3 years before we found the right combination of speakers/and fiber cone material alone (which comes from New Zealand). We roll-off our MixCubes at 90 Hz for a reason, and we are almost perfectly linear throughout the remainder of the 90 Hz to 17k frequency response.

I hope you don't mind, but let me explain how MixCubes are supposed to be used and why they work correctly. Please don't think that I'm "preaching at you". I know that many of you are professionals and I respect everyone here on the forum... OK, here goes

MixCubes have a frequency response of 90 Hz to 17 kHz (that's not much bass end is it!), but here's the deal.

Everybody who is mixing music now-a-days, all have killer speakers to mix on. That's all well and good, but it doesn't give the engineer any idea as to what their mix is going to sound like when listened to through IPOD stations, portable music players, computer speakers, (like when you run into someone at an airport and it happens to be a producer, so he opts to listen right then and there on his computer speakers cheap earphones,Television sets, and any other number of media that are being used today. ANYBODY WHO IS MIXING ON BIG MONITORS AND NOT CHECKING HOW THEIR MUSIC IS GOING TO SOUND FOR ALL THESE OTHER TYPES OF MEDIA ARE NOT BEING VERY SMART! The reason is because it will almost always sound horrible and he/she will come off as amateurs.

Here's why: The great bass thump and the super sparkling hi-end that your killer speakers can reproduce just can't be heard on or as you expect them to on these other playback systems. For example, a 60 Hz kick drum sound coming through an IPOD docking station will either be a splat or it just won't be reproduced because the tiny diaphragm can't produce it. Coming through computer speakers? FORGET IT! It's just not there... Like-wise, the same for super hi-end sounds. Mid-range sound that often sounds great on big speakers CAN be heard just fine on most of the various media speakers, but guess what happens when the bass and super hi-end sounds aren't there? All of a sudden, the music sound completely "mid rangey" and completely out of balance. This is because the mid-range reproduces just fine but when the bass and hi-end didn't translate to the speakers, it sounded like a terrible recording. ENTER THE MIXCUBES.

Today's Studio Monitors are almost always 2-way, 3-way, or even 4 way systems. That means that they use crossovers to send specific audio frequencies to specific amps and then on to specific drivers. That's all well and good. But don't let anyone tell you that during this process, that a certain amount of cancellation of frequencies occurs, because it does! Let me repeat that. When crossovers are involved, there is ALWAYS going to be some cancellation, smearing and other possible anomilies inherent with the audio that is output. THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER BECAUSE WE WILL RETURN TO THIS IN A FEW MINUTES...

So What Do The MixCubes Do and What Makes Them a Professional Tool Vs. Other Powered Mini-Monitors? If you have followed along so far, then this will make total sense to you... The engineer has a great mix on his main monitors and then he switches to his MixCubes. Immediately he wonders where his bass is! Well, he is actually getting an accurate listen to what it would sound like in a docking station, computer speakers, etc. All sound is based on what is known as the Harmonic Series. For those that familiar with this, just a quick lesson:
1. All sounds are made of multiple frequencies, this is called the Harmonic Series.
2. The main sound that you hear when you pluck a guitar string, for example is the Fundamental Frequency
3. But, the real sound is made up of a series of other sounds that are progressively lower and lower in volume.
4. Lots of guitarists actually tune their guitars all the time by using the Harmonic Series by reproducing the 1st Harmonic which is always the same for ALL Sounds and it is located exactly 1 Octave higher Sound familiar GREAT!

So This Is What The MixCubes Do: The engineer has a great mix on his big monitors and then he switches to the MixCubes and immediately he wonders where his bass is. Well, he is getting an accurate listen to what it would sound like in a docking station, a pair of computer speakers, etc. We know that the fundamental bass frequency IS NOT REPRODUCED in most of the speakers that are used such as computer speakers, etc. So, we purposely, rolled off the fundamental bass frequency, and you are basically going to be reinforcing the bass frequency exactly one octave above (a secret known by only a few of the best producers) READ ON!

Now, what he wants to do is EQ the sound so he can hear the kick, bass, maybe back out a bit of the mid-range and add just a touch of sparkle. The cool thing is that he won?t be doing an additive thing at the same frequencies because the frequencies that he?ll be boosting for bass will be in the 100-250 Hz range, so it most likely will not influence his mix at all. Here?s an almost step by step procedure:

1. Get a great mix happening on your preferred monitors then switch over to the MixCubes
2. You?ll immediately miss the bottom end? but instead of trying to add low-end at 60-100 Hz, (since MixCubes don?t reproduce those frequencies); to bring in the kick, and bass, you will have to start by adding a dB or two in the 100-250 Hz area, just until you can hear your kick, bass, etc. Once you hear it like it is supposed to sound in your mix, STOP! What you have actually done is reinforce the FUNDAMENTAL BASS FREQUENCY 1 OCTAVE HIGHER! (AND NOT EATING UP LOTS OF ENERGY IN THE PROCESS EITHER)!
3. Now, make any slight adjustments in the mid-range and high end as necessary. You might notice that the background vocals are a little louder than you thought they were, or the acoustic guitar is ?sticking out? a bit. Remember me talking about the crossover points in multi-way monitors? That?s because of cancellation in possible critical ranges. Because MixCubes are virtually flat from 90 Hz to 17 kHz, you can make multiple adjustments as you see fit. (Just exactly where a speaker might have its crossover point(s) will vary from monitor to monitor, but now you've compensated for it! Just a dB or two back and you?re right in the groove.
4. Now switch back to you main monitors.
5. You?ll be amazed to find that unless you?ve got super incredible ears that these extra ?db?s or two? doesn?t seem to affect your mix hardly at all...
Why? Well, think about it for a moment:
1a. You reinforced the Octave ABOVE the fundamental in the bass which only reinforces the bass.
2a. All of the places that you rolled-back most likely were at crossover points. When you switch back to your main monitors the crossover points once again mask what you've done there!
Way Cool!!!
6.NOW, you?ll have a mix that is going to sound great on all of those IPOD docking stations, car radios, computers, and all the other alternate playback systems that is prevalent in today?s music world.

How Do You Figure Glen?
That?s because when a producer grabs your MixCube adjusted Mix and decides to listen on his cheap computer speakers, you already know that you have:
1. Added Bass in the important octave above the fundamental (so you know that the bass section will be heard)and that the fundamental on his computer speakers won't reproduce.
2. Checked and rolled back on any crossover points so there isn?t going to be any super-bright, annoying out of perspective mid-range/hi-end levels. (Again, you rolled back on any ?too loud? sections called by crossover cancellations. Even if his speakers are not flat at least you're not adding additional mid-range and hi-end to certain frequencies inherent in his system!

Instead, you have a perfectly balanced mix and (here's the best part), when he plays that same disk on a pro system, everything still sounds amazing because the bass below the fundamental wasn't taken out of your mix. We never touched it! And the crossover points which we backed out if they were a bit too loud, won't hurt anything because he probably has a multi-way system also and if it doesn't crossover at the same places, then you gain by the improvements that you made on the MixCubes.

[Granata]

Najgluplji moguci razlog za kupovinu ovih mixcubesa ili fostexa je da bi se chulo kako mix zvuchi na loshim zvuchnicima.

Prednost ovih monitora je iskljuchivo u kvalitetu i dizajnu (kompresiona single driver kutija) koji omogucava realan prikaz srednjeg opsega (koji je kritichan za dobar mix) i tranzienata koji su chesto pogreshno reprodukovani usled faznih neslaganja i rezonanci u basu kod vishesistemskih zvuchnika sa portovima.

[Bockie]

Originally Posted by Granata

Najgluplji moguci razlog za kupovinu ovih mixcubesa ili fostexa je da bi se chulo kako mix zvuchi na loshim zvuchnicima.

Prednost ovih monitora je iskljuchivo u kvalitetu i dizajnu (kompresiona single driver kutija) koji omogucava realan prikaz srednjeg opsega (koji je kritichan za dobar mix) i tranzienata koji su chesto pogreshno reprodukovani usled faznih neslaganja i rezonanci u basu kod vishesistemskih zvuchnika sa portovima.

"Realan prikaz", "tranzijenti", "fazna neslaganja"...

Kupiš govnjivu kutiju "zbog dizajna"...

A stvarno svašta trpi tastatura...

Ne, nego ih kupuju da im stane pored mikrotalsne, uz sudoperu...i tako 30 godina...

...i te izvikane "fazne razlike"...višesistemskih monitora...koji je to čuven primer toga? Koji monitor..?


Kome je to bitno? Koji rad vam je propao zbog "faznih razlika" neke kutije!?

Robuje se floskulama, neznanjem, ne mislim sad na ovaj reply, ali uopšteno...

Evo ja u NS, skoro pola miliona ljudi, ovde nema na prste ruke da izbrojiš ljude koji stvarno znaju da proizvedu neki rezultat. Ali 250 'iljada zna da snima i miksa i zna o "faznim razlikama"...!

Da ne ispadnem nadobudan, ne smatram da znam išta, 16-17 godina se zanimam i nešto tu radim, i krećem na najboljim mestima koje ovaj prostor i vreme ima da ponudi, pa još mislim da ne znam ni blizu dovoljno...!

Više se veruje GS-u nego sopstevenim ušima!

Naprodavao sam se i jednih i drugih, ima toga, idite i slušajte, pa sami zaključite šta VAMA bolje radi, i nije to za svaku muziku.

Zašto bi nekog tuc-brain-damage-majmuna zanimalo kao svira mega-sub-bass-rmx na iPhone...jebe mu se...radio je rmx za disko klub...main stage itd...

Da sva ta g...zvuče dobro na telefonu, ne bi Exit prodao ni 3 karte...slušali bi svi kući telefon.

Ako nešto odgovara vašoj potrebi, i pruža rezultate, onda je opravdano!

[radijator1]

Originally Posted by bitch

kakav standard?



Kao na primer sta?


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xxx

[Moritz]

Originally Posted by radijator1

Mislim da nisi upravu i da pogresno savjetujes covjeka.Avantone su odlicni zvucnici i postali su nekakav standard.Na njima se cuje upravo ono sto nemozes cuti sa nekim drugim izvorom.

Potpuno si promasio temu pismenog zadatka ....

Kada bi stvarno znao svrhu malih kutija, koje god marke one bile, tada bi razumeo svrhu mog posta...a ovako slobodno robuj "standardima" i ostalim "cujenjima koje ne mozes nigde drugo cuti" .



A to o faznim razlikama kod vise-sistemskih kutija....da, manje vise postoje kod svake kutije barem u nekoj meri, ali cu se tu sloziti sa Bockiem...koga su ti fazni problemi sprecili da uradi dobar mix ili napise hit pesmu?.... Gearslutz je postao, cast izuzecima, teska zuta stampa....zagrejte stolicu jedno 10-12 sati na dan svaki dan i tako nekoliko godina i sve ce vam se samo reci ...iskustvo i upornost resavaju sve misterije ovog posla

[Bitch]

Originally Posted by radijator1

???????.....bez nervoze.....
ili pak procitaj post od "DzoniPFC" i sve ce ti biti jasno

Nema nikakve nervoze, ne brini.
Procitao sam odavno te tekstove, ali se ne slazem sa svim tim... I odavno mi je sto kazes "sve jasno".

Kao sto mi je jasno sta znaci rec "marketing" i "kupite nase kutije".

Uzasno je prosto - svako ima pravo da kupi sta hoce.
Neka svako sebi kupi ono sto misli da mu radi posao jer je tako procitao (ili ono sto zna da mu radi posao jer je uradio vec neki posao).


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