Va?no Prije Davanja Kritike

[ANITA]

Radi vrlo čestog pogre?nog shvaćanja ovog topica, evo malog poja?njenja njegove svrhe.

Kako ovaj forum potpisuje veliki broj članova, među njima se mogu pronaći potpuni početnici i kompletni profesionalci. More različitih dubina.
Upravo zato, ovim topicom ?elim skrenuti pa?nju upravo na početnike! Vremena i prilika za odustajanje se vrlo lako mogu pronaći na svakom malom koraku, stoga nikako ne pozdravljam "spu?tanje" (samo) radi "spu?tanja".

Dobronamjerno davanje jasne lokacije "gdje je netko" i gdje mu se preporuča ići je od velike koristi i jedina je svrha postojanja cijelog ovog djela foruma.

Jedan link na tu temu....
http://www.musique.umontreal.ca/pers...reativity.html

[ANITA]

Encouraging Musical Creativity
by Alan Belkin
Introduction: Why this essay?
I see creativity in musical composition as an example of the human capacity for problem solving, and for inventing rich imaginative worlds. These two elements are linked: For an imaginative world to be convincing, it has to be coherent and consistent, which requires problem solving, in combining musical elements in ways which fit the individual work.
It is a clich? to say that children are born creative, and that creativity usually decreases with age as people become more set in their ways. Perhaps a better way to describe the child's attitude is as one of fascination with the world, and as a constant and active attempt to make sense of it. Since the adult world is also rife with discouragement and distraction, it is often hard to enter a state of mind where creativity will flourish. But the task is important, if we are to encourage what is best in human nature, and undoubtedly we can learn from the young.

Two fascinating books, whose authors were artists themselves, explore the nature of creativity in complementary ways. Adele Wiseman's Old Woman at Play takes a deep and uplifting look at creativity in an unlikely place: her mother's activity as a doll-maker. Tillie Olsen's Silences, more somber in tone, looks at examples of artists, many of them very well known, who stopped creating due to discouragement, lack of understanding, or material privation. In an earlier generation, Virginia Woolf's A Room of One's Own also addressed some key questions about how creativity is stamped out.

Having taught musical composition myself for years, I have seen young talents wasted or diminished by discouragement and poor guidance. While it is easy to say that the stronger talents will always survive, this is impossible to prove, and in any case leaves unanswered a critical point: All creativity deserves to be developed and encouraged. While not everyone is a Bach or a Mozart, that does not mean that they have nothing to contribute. And indeed we will never know if humanity has in fact lost another Bach or Mozart because they were born the wrong sex, in the wrong time, or the wrong place, or simply lacked the conditions for full development.

I will discuss encouraging musical creativity here from three points of view: that of the outsider (i.e. the listener, friend, colleague, etc.); that of the teacher; and finally, that of the artist himself.

The outsider
Artistic creativity is not sufficiently valued in society. Apart from a very lucky few, most artists encounter obstacles to the acceptance of their work. Especially at the beginning of a career, acceptance is slow, and discouragement and indifference are the norm. Ideally, the interested non-composer should be open and encouraging.
However, even in the absence of any positive contribution, at the least, the outsider should attempt to do no harm.

This seems obvious, but various subtly destructive attitudes abound. Here are a few examples:

Minimizing the value and importance of art: The talented young person needs a minimum of support about the value of his ambitions. While it is true that making a living as an artist is difficult, the decision to pursue an artistic career should be respected. It seems to me better to look back on one's life and say "I tried my best to do what I wanted", than "I wish I had tried".
The private club mentality: One of the most common obstacles for fledgling composers is the idea that "real" composers make up a sort of exclusive club, whose admission is determined by a small elite. This elite is not an organized group (indeed, opinions can vary greatly over the details of who qualifies) but the focus remains exclusion (confirming, by implication, the impeccable judgement and taste of the arbiters). Typical of this attitude are phrases like, "The only real composer here is [x]", "[y] is just an arranger". People with this attitude publish articles and brochures listing "the ten main composers in [z]". Apart from the fact that history repeatedly shows that such judgements are almost always wrong, the attitude is fundamentally ungenerous and closed.
Artificial limits: Another very common exclusionary tactic is, implicitly or explicitly, setting up artificial criteria like age, race, or sex, or style as bases for judgement. The last point is worth elaborating. Style is the expression of an individual personality, not of some fashionable trend. In a serious artist it will emerge naturally over time. It cannot meaningfully be chosen intellectually.
The fetish of "modernity": History shows that several major composers were considered very conservative in their own times (Bach, Brahms). With hindsight it is clear that such judgements are superficial, and that modernity in itself is no guarantee of value: What is new today is not new tomorrow. If all a work of art has to offer is novelty, why listen to it again after the first hearing?

[ANITA]

Confusing ambition with arrogance: Any creative artist must have a certain amount of confidence in his own work just to be able to produce it. (This kind of honest ambition to make something beautiful and significant has nothing to do with ego driven plans to conquer the artistic world: The two may co-exist but are not the same.) When outsiders mock serious creative ambition or do not take it seriously, they in effect try to undermine its legitimacy and by extension, make the artist incapable of work. There is an important distinction between respect for modest but genuine accomplishment, and proclaiming the composer in question a major figure. Even the former can be very important to a developing artist, whereas the unwillingness to accord such respect has the effect of discouraging artists at their most vulnerable stage of development, and also of making it harder to attain to higher accomplishment. Conversely, declaring a new and untried artist a "genius" encouraged arrogance and can stunt development.
Lack of respect for craftsmanship: Composition is first a matter of craftsmanship - refined use of the materials - and only subsequently enters the domain of art: Judging artistic worth in the absence of craft is simply too unreliable. When craft is not respected, art becomes whatever the critic arbitrarily defines it to be. This also has the effect of discouraging real, hard won accomplishment.
Over-intellectualizing: Creative processes involve the whole person, not just, or even primarily, the intellect. Over-insistence on pigeon-holing, and the attempt to explain everything analytically, is especially dangerous for a young artist, who may not be entirely in touch with his own sources of inspiration. "Before that which we do not understand, it is best to remain silent".
The teacher
The teacher's role in developing creative talent lies, first, in recognizing it, and second in knowing how to stimulate and encourage it. Predicting how far talent can go from the early stages is usually unreliable. In general it is better to err on the side of moderate optimism. Only two things are critical: a strong enthusiasm for music, and a great willingness to work hard. Fortunately, these two requirements are easy to verify. Given these qualities, it is better not to predict limits on what can be achieved. If the student is well taught and has a professional attitude, the results are often surprising. If the student does not become a composer, he will in any case be better equipped for a musical career.
Good teaching requires three things:

detailed knowledge of the subject,
pleasure in sharing it (generosity), and,
sufficient organization to help the student graduate his efforts, so as to balance challenges and encouragement.
It is worth saying a word about the challenges: Good teaching sometimes requires making the student uncomfortable. Exploring new terrain is always a test of one's self confidence, and for the inexperienced young person this test can be very stressful. On the other hand, the teacher who does not push the student to surpass himself does not do justice to real talent. Likewise the teacher who does not emphasize the best possible craftsmanship handicaps the young artist. Moreover, it is essential to understand craft not mainly as a matter of intellectual analysis, but rather of pointing out what is wrong in a constructive way, i.e. as specifically as possible. Suggestions should be formulated positively wherever possible; more than one suggested solution is also useful to show the student a range of possibilities.
It is also valuable for the teacher to have clear, explicit criteria for good work. Not only does this help the student know what to aim for, but also when he goes his own way eventually, it is easier to define where he wishes to part ways with the teacher.

Finally, the teacher can and should cultivate certain attitudes in the student: ambition without pretension, respect for craft, and regular, constructive self-criticism,.

Stimulating one's own creativity
On reaching artistic maturity, the composer should have acquired a good knowledge of the repertoire, and of his craft. He also needs knowledge of himself, not just in the obvious stylistic sense (a composer's style is essentially made of his preferences), but also in the sense of dealing with his own psychology: especially, how to find creative stimulation, how to grow as an artist, and how to overcome blocks.
Most artists find a blank page their worst enemy. Faced with nothingness, and it's attendant fear of creative emptiness, it is important to have a few ways of getting started. A few suggestions:

Keep a sketchbook. Whenever an idea strikes, note it down. Sketches can be very short or else longer, including just main lines.
Develop ways of working in small dimensions; writing a one page sketch is much less intimidating than attacking a three hour opera as a whole.
Extra-musical stimulation may be useful for some composers. This usually takes the form of some sort of narrative behind the music. Interestingly, it is not always made explicit to the listener.
Experiment, and take risks. This does not mean that the finished work should be just an experiment, but that during the composition, it can be useful to deliberately try new procedures, even if one ultimately rejects most of the results in the final piece.
Imitate others, but in a distorted way. Obviously direct imitation creates epigones, but, sufficiently distorted, useful ideas may result.
Develop a rhythm of work: ideally one should produce something every day. It need not be large or profound, but it seems to be psychologically useful to feel that one has accomplished something daily. Likewise, try to finish the day's work with something positive, no matter how small.
It is impossible to be objective about one's work while writing it. Take the time to put aside work and come back to it in the cold light of another day.
Finally, creativity requires a certain tolerance for frustration. Every creator, no matter how humble, knows the feeling when "inspiration" strikes: the work seems to flow on its own, problems seem to solve themselves, and new directions emerge as though they were gifts from heaven. Unfortunately this happy state of mind does not always present itself easily on demand; it cannot be consciously commanded. What can the creator do in those moments when the blank page stares gloomily back, when problems become obsessions, and when every path seems stale?
The time tested response to this question is that, while shy, inspiration prefers to show itself to those who work hard. As long as the composer manages to keep up some sort of musical routine, whether it be the orchestration of already written music, or even, as Brahms is reputed to have done, doing counterpoint exercises, usually the mind eventually returns to the appropriate state for more stimulating work.

Conclusion
Artistic creativity is a valuable human activity. It involves problem solving, expression, and generosity. It is also a force against evil: the artist aims to enlarge, not to belittle, to create, instead of destroy.
Acknowledgement
Many thanks to my friend Charles Lafleur, for his stimulating comments.

[Dean Milenkovic]

Alan Belkin je jedan od najuticajnih ljudi u mom zivotu. Odkad sam ga upoznao na forumu Garittan-a, i posle kad sam ga upoznao uzivo, covek je kao knjiga. Knjiga bez korica-bez pocetka i bez kraja-bez pregovora koga svako preskace-svaka rec i svaki detalj je presudan.:o

Neka njegova dela, kao kako misliti izvan kkutije(think outisde the box) su kao biblija za mene.

Ovo preporucujem svakom. Dobar post Anita!

[SHIVA]

Confusing ambition with arrogance: Any creative artist must have a certain amount of confidence in his own work just to be able to produce it. (This kind of honest ambition to make something beautiful and significant has nothing to do with ego driven plans to conquer the artistic world: The two may co-exist but are not the same.)

Imati samopouzdanja je u redu, no do kraja rechenice samopouzdanje postaje "iskrena ambicija" koja navodno ne proizlazi iz ega. Naravno ovo je potpuno pogreshno. Svaka ambicija dolazi iz ega i ambicija ne mozhe biti niti iskrena ili lazhna. Ljudi mogu biti iskreni glede svojih ambicija ili lagati o tome kakve su njihove ambicije.

Ambicija je neshto shto zhelimo za sebe. Na to imamo pravo ali osobne ambicije nisu od koristi ni populaciji ni umjetnosti kao takvoj. Ochekivanje da okolina potiche i podrzhava tudje osobne ambicije je spektakularno nerazumno, neutemeljeno i teshko vjerojatno. Tvoja ambicija - tvoj problem. Drushtvo nema ni etichkog ni interesnog temelja za individualne osobne ambicije.

Composition is first a matter of craftsmanship - refined use of the materials - and only subsequently enters the domain of art: Judging artistic worth in the absence of craft is simply too unreliable.

To shto je netko 3 godine tuckao kamen da bi napravio skulpturu apsolutno ne utjeche na umjetnichku vrijednost skulpture. Trud treba uvijek cijeniti neovisno o rezultatu. Dobra volja, rad i predanost su vrijednosti same za sebe.

When craft is not respected, art becomes whatever the critic arbitrarily defines it to be.

Umjetnst je upravo ono shto osoba osjeti u kontaktu sa umjetninom. Dozhivljaj umjetnichkog djela jest esencija umjetnosti. Umjetnici ne stvaraju umjetnost - intenzivan dozhivljaj i emocija koja se pobudi u "posmatrachu" ostavlja umjetnichki dojam na te osobe shto definira autora umjetnikom. Ta ista osoba nije zauvijek priznati umjetnik... umjetnici smo samo onda kad nash rad netko dozhivi kao umjetnost. Smatrati sebe umjetnikom je apsolutno produkt egocentrichne perspektive i ambicije ega.

Over-intellectualizing: Creative processes involve the whole person, not just, or even primarily, the intellect.

Tochno, ali u nastavku...

"Before that which we do not understand, it is best to remain silent".

Ispravna opservacije nakon koje slijedi podvala teze i potpuno krivi zakljuchak. Shutechi o stvarima koje ne razumijemo anuliramo moguchnost da to ikada razumijemo. Opet... ako osoba ne dozhivljava umjetninu ne znachi da to ne smije rechi i eventualno zatrazhiti interpretaciju drugih osoba. Ukoliko postoi zhelja za shvachanjem i ukoliko doista postoi umjetnichki potencijal u djelu komparacija mishljenja che chesto imati efekt spoznaje kod osoba otvorenog uma, zheljnih shvachanja umjetnosti. Dakle ne spominjati ono shto ne razumijesh - to je siguran put u josh dublje nerazumijevanje. Osim ochitog idiotizma dobija se dojam da samonazvani umjetnici imaju "pravo" diskriminirati "kritiku" pod isprikom navodnog nerazumijevanja onoga tko posmatra djelo. Ovo se naravno direktno kosi s prvom rechenicom gdje umjetnost nije podlozhna iskljuchivo (ukoliko i uopche) intelektu. U istom pasusu treba prvo razumijeti da bi se imalo pravo na kritiku, ali kritika se nesmije temeljiti na intelektualnoj interpretaciji. Pomalo sumljam da je itko u stanju imati ovako apsurdna i kontradiktorna mishljenja bez da je svjestan ispraznosti vlastitih rijechi. Ne uvidjanje nesuvislosti i nedosljednosti kod chitatelja mozhe biti i posljedica povrshnog ili nekritichnog chitanja (poput chitanja beletristike).

U kompletu sa generalnom porukom koja potiche jachanje ega i osobnih ambicija, te sugerira da je okolina duzhna iste poticati i cijeniti neovisno o osobnom dojmu produkta "umjetnika" ovaj elaborat postaje vrlo podmukao "savjet" svakoj osobi koja previdi ochite paradokse i neutemeljenost zakljuchaka.

The teacher

Da ne kvotam... nitko na svijetu nije duzhan nikome prenjeti nikakvo znanje. Znanje se ne mozhe platiti. Plachamo ljude da nam prenesu znanje koje mi smatramo da oni imaju. Oni koji ga doista imaju chesto ga i prenose, no oni su ti koi biraju kome che ga prenjeti. Ako netko podjeli s nama znanje mi mozhemo biti zahvalni. Imati ochekivanja i norme za idealnog uchitelja je (ponovo) egocentrichna perspektiva. Ne postoje uchitelji zbog kreativaca i njihovog razvoja. Uchitelji postoje radi plemenite geste prenoshenja znanja na pojedince koji su ga vrijedni. Kod formalnog obrazovanja postoje "potroshachka prava" uchenika i chinjenica da nasha procjena njegove kompetencije mozhe biti pogreshna. Takvo obrazovanje je na vlastiti rizik, uchitelj samo udovoljava potrezhnju iz primarno financijskog interesa.

Takodjer dotichni vjeruje da umjetnici ne podlijezhu kategorijama i da svjesno ne biraju stil vech se to definira s vremenom. Za doista kreativne osobe to je donekle i tochno... kreativni razvoj je nepredvidljivog smjera, ali daleko od toga da nije pod utjecajem stilova i kategorija. Stilovi ne nastaju u marketinshkim uredima... oni su refleksija stereotipa populacije. Vishe osoba sklonih istim stvarima postaje stil. Nedostatak kreativnosti uvijek rezultira prihvachanjem postojechih stilova iz okoline. Postojanje stilova utjeche ne samo na rad vech i na razmishljanje umjetnika. To donekle stvara granicu izmedju upadanja u stereotip i smislenog izlaska iz postojechih stereotipa. Donekle jer to je tek preduvjet da netko nash rad dozhivi umjetnichkim. Dok rad podlijezhe stereotipima i nije pretjerano kreativan, ili je kreativan ali pod utjecajem stilova. Tek napushtanjem tih okvira ulazimo u domenu umjetnosti koju drugi mogu i ne moraju kao takvu dozhivjeti.

"Beauty is in the eye of the beholder"

Imitate others, but in a distorted way. Sufficiently distorted, useful ideas may result.

Dakle treba poticati "kreativne ljude" koji kreativnost postizhu kopiranjem stereotipa i krivljenjem postojechih koncepata u nadi da che igrom sluchaja tako nastati neshto od esencijalne vazhnosti za planetarni umjetnichki image. E pa demoliranjem postojechih formi zapravo kreativni aspekt prepushtamo sluchaju pri chemu je uloga autora jednaka ulozi vjetra koji u pustinji stvori prekrasne pjeshchane dine. Dapache, priroda je u toj disciplini vrlo uspjeshna i takva forma kreativnosti zbilja nikome nie potrebna osim osobi koja zheli biti priznata kao umjetnik a sama nema kreativnih ideja.

O onoj "bozhanskoj" inspiraciji kazhe...

Unfortunately this happy state of mind does not always present itself easily on demand; it cannot be consciously commanded.

Ovo je izjava koja je trebala naglasiti da se radi o uvjerenju pisca za koje ne postoji niti jedna indicija. To shto autor teksta to ne mozhe ne znachi da nitko drugi to ne mozhe. Pravdajuchi osobne ambicije vishim ciljevima chovijek limitira svoja razmishljanja u predjelu percipiranja i analize. Bez ispravne percepcije i kritichnog razmishljanja ne samo da nema kreativnosti... nema apsolutno nikakvog smisla.

As long as the composer manages to keep up some sort of musical routine, whether it be the orchestration of already written music, or even, as Brahms is reputed to have done, doing counterpoint exercises, usually the mind eventually returns to the appropriate state for more stimulating work.

Rutina i ponavljanje postojecheg repertoara vode jedino u refleksnu i podsvjesnu rutinu i ponavljanje postojechih formi. Ochekivati nalet inspiracije od rutinskog i shabloniziranog rada je kao da chekate izlazak sunca dok sjedite u pechini koja gleda na sjever.

Iskreno... znam da su shanse da netko ovo uopche prochita s interesom i razumijevanjem zapravo minimalne. Ali ne komentirati ove ochite podvale i krive sugestije je isto shto i podrzhati ih. Smatram ovakve tekstove vrlo podmuklim formama manipulacije i kontrole uma. Shteta shto upravo oni koi ne vjeruju u takve stvari postaju prve zhrtve manipulacije. Mind control uglavnom nije sofisticirana tehnologija i neprimjetni signali. To je posljedica nekritichkog razmishljanja pojedinca. Sredstvo masovne manipulacije je u pravilu sasvim bezazlena stvar... bash poput ovog chlanka!

[SHIVA]

u koncentriranosti na dosljednost teksta zaboravih napomenuti da je vechina iznjetih opazhanja o umjetnichkom radu, nekompetenciji vlasnika klubova i slichnih tegoba potpuno ili barem dobrim dijelom ispravna. Neispravni su generalno zakljuchci koje se navodi i to je ono shto me kod teksta ljuti. Sasvim je jasno da autor dobro poznaje mehanizme ali redovito dolazi do destruktivnih zakljuchaka. To je u najboljem sluchaju puko zavaravanje vlastite savjesti, a lako moguche i svjesno podmetanje klipova u kreativne krugove drushtva.

Iskreno... ne znam shto je gore. Ljechenje vlastitih kompleksa prenoshenjem istih kompleksa na okolinu ili morbidan um koji to svjesno radi s ciljem jachanja ega pojedinca i averzije prema okolini s uvjerenjem da nas je ista duzhna bodriti, tjeshiti, uchiti, cijeniti neovisno o dojmu i ne kritizirati. Drugim rijechima sve shto razmazheno derishte ochekuje od roditelja i okoline. Taj problem na zhalost plate razmazheni pojedinci jer je okolina (za razliku od nekih roditelja) chesto i nepotrebno okrutna prema razmazhenim osobama.

[Dushan_S]

Čitam ovo ?to si napisao... Pa da dodam da do?ivljavam da je naglasak na pojedincu i iskrenosti i snazi njegove ?elje da uči i usavr?ava se. Ako je to ono ?to je primarno, on je usmeren na učenje a ne na formu, pa nije potrebno "hrabriti ga" ili mu "jačati ego". Dapače često je posao učitelja upravo obrnut, da potpuno razbuca koncept osobe koja je do?la da ne?to nauči, naročito ako ta osoba smatra da ne?to zna, a ne da je hrabri i jača.

[Eeva_r&b]

Pravilo je da nema pravila - u svakom mogucem vidu kreativnosti,neosporiva cinjenica,vekovima unazad.

Sto se tice narusavanja samopouzdanja umetnika, u ovom slucaju muzicara,to je upravo ono sto ga baca u pokret.Kada bi svaki muzicar verovao da je njegova muzika dovoljno dobra,ne bi imao motiv za dalji napredak.
A nista nas nece jace osamariti i osvestiti nego kada dobijemo negativnu kritiku.

Previse potvrde i pozitivnih utisaka od drugih ljudi - opusta.Nestaje takmicarski duh,teznja ka boljem,nestaje strasti.A ta strast je upravo osnova za muziku koja ostavlja pecat,bila ona pozitivna ili negativna.

Priznajem da sam i sama kivna na ljude koji su me,kao sto ti kazes, 'spustali na zemlju',ali da nije bilo njih,ne bih znala da imam snage da odskocim od zemlje i premasim svoja sopstvena ocekivanja,kao i njihova.Oni koji te sputavaju su upravo ti koji ti ubrzavaju razvice,tako je na svim poljima u zivotu.

Sve u svojoj meri,doduse,volje za radom ne sme nestati.Neki se u zivotu od previse negativnih stvari sa kojima su suoceni umore i ubiju,a neki postanu jaci.Neki muzicari se povuku,a neki postanu uspesniji u onome sto rade.

Ja vam zelim svima da budete ovi drugi.


Pozz

Eeva
http://www.myspace.com/eevamusic

[Eeva_r&b]

O 'pametnjakovicima' koji nisu merodovni da kritikuju cak ni ne razmisljam,a kamoli govorim,njima svakako ne treba udeliti taj kompliment da su sposobni da udare.Cekaj,devojko, zasto tebe oni uopste i doticu?

Samokritika nekada nije dovoljna.Potreban je feedback.
Covek je socijalno bice.Potrebno je da njegova muzika ostvari komunikaciju sa slusaocem i uvidi njegovu reakciju.
Ali razumem sta hoces da kazes,necemo ici u krug
Ja ti kazem - psi laju, karavani idu.Ne gubi vreme pokusavajuci da ispravljas krive Drine i ubedis te ljude kako grese sto narusavaju tvoj umetnicki mir.Oni to nece shvatiti.Glavu gore,i samo radi,nauci da okreces ledja stvarima koje deluju negativno na tebe.

All tha best

Eeva

[roginator]

Originally Posted by Eeva_r&b

Ja ti kazem - psi laju, karavani idu.Ne gubi vreme pokusavajuci da ispravljas krive Drine i ubedis te ljude kako grese sto narusavaju tvoj umetnicki mir.Oni to nece shvatiti.Glavu gore,i samo radi,nauci da okreces ledja stvarima koje deluju negativno na tebe.

All tha best

Eeva

+1