Separacija po grupama za mastering...

[idekius]

Originally Posted by Ogi

Ih, ne da sam zadovoljan - presrecan sam!!!
Ako se kolege sa foruma ne razbeze na odmore, krajem juna (kad mi prodje guzva u studiju), mogli bi smo da napravimo mali test sabirnica, kompresora, masteringa po grupama i stereo miksa...

Uhhhh... Zaista je interesantno uporediti sumiranje na Neve 8816 sa soft sabiranjem, a pogotovu je interesentno uporediti kako stoji MasterAcoustics S-16 ( http://www.ma-pro.com/products/index.html ) u odnosu na znatno skuplji Neve, posto se on radi u Srbiji po ,rekao bih, pristupacnim cenama...

[Ogi]

Originally Posted by idekius

Uhhhh... Zaista je interesantno uporediti sumiranje na Neve 8816 sa soft sabiranjem, a pogotovu je interesentno uporediti kako stoji MasterAcoustics S-16 ( http://www.ma-pro.com/products/index.html ) u odnosu na znatno skuplji Neve, posto se on radi u Srbiji po ,rekao bih, pristupacnim cenama...

Neve protiv software sabiranja - nije ista kategorija...nikada ni jedan software nece imati headroom kao bilo koja hardware sabirnica ili mikser, bio to Neve, ili Behringer(zvuci kao da mi je drazi OTB nego ITB, jel' da?)

A voleo bih da cujem tog MasterAcoustics-a, mozemo da ga cujemo ne samo uz
Neve-a... tu su mi i Tubetech i Shadow Hills Equinox

[Ogi]

Upravo sam otvorio link MasterAcoustic-a...
Video sam uredjaj kod Aleka Aleksova, ali ga nisam cuo...



P.S.
Jel' ovo vec prelazi u off-topic?

[idekius]

Originally Posted by Ogi

Upravo sam otvorio link MasterAcoustic-a...
Video sam uredjaj kod Aleka Aleksova, ali ga nisam cuo...



P.S.
Jel' ovo vec prelazi u off-topic?

Paaaaa... ne bas previse, po meni, posto upotreba analognih sabirnica u masteringu ima smisla samo pri masteringu po grupama, inace bi mogli da saberemo samo levi i desni kanal, sto sumnjam da je pametno

Upravo su analogne sabirnice, skupi analogni kompresori i jos po nesto razlog zasto u nekim slucajevima opravdavam mastering po grupama, ma da je istina da je to vec na granici sa mixom...

U Perunovom slucaju stvari zaista stoje drugacije... covek ima SSL sto, sa svojim master buss kompresorom, dosta drugog hardwera... i zaista tesko da moze to da ima smisla u njegovom slucaju...
Da je 99-te od sprava imao to sto danas ima, NATO bi ga definitivno proglasio za legitimnu vojnu metu, jer sam siguran da bi im zracenja Perunovih trafoa privukla paznju, pa bi njihovi generali utripovali da se radi o nekom tajnom i opasnom Srpskom PVO systemu

Ako primena separatnog masteringa nekome omoguci kvalitetnije zbrajanje grupa, kompresovanje i ekvalizaciju grupa ezotericnim spravama, a covek tako nesto vec nema u svom studiu-ateljeu, onda... uz proverenog i dobrog mastering engineer-a... zasto da ne? Opet kazem... jeste to na granici sa mixom, ali, ako to omogucava poboljsanje kranjeg rezultata na ovaj nacin... onda... nema razloga ne raditi i tako... cilj opravdava sredstva...

[DaBear]

To (nosenje traka na mastering) nije nova stvar..Massive Attack su to radili, ali su ostali mesec dana u mastering studiju!!?? Nemoze svako da priusti...
po meni - nema potrebe UOPSTE!! Ko ne moze da smiksa u studiju, ima problem!

[Ogi]

Ovo je citat sa sa sajta Bob-a Katz-a...
Nadam se da se ovakva vrsta citiranja ne kosi sa pravilima foruma - ako nije dozvoljeno, MOLIM MODERATORE i ADMINISTRATORE DA OVAJ POST OBRISU!!!

When, Why, and How to Make Stems
I've definitely reached the conclusion that the less compromise you can make in the mastering process, the better the result. Let's say you have an otherwise great mix, but which has too little bass instrument, too much kick, and the lower midrange is a little bit muddy. This is a potentially bad (not lethal) combination for mastering and if the client has time, I recommend a remix.
However, in situations like the aforementioned, when time is tight, I have also asked the client for stems, and the results have ALWAYS been better than if I had mastered from the combined two-track. Next the question comes of whether to remix the stems without mastering processing in line or to try to mix/master in the same path. If it were a 40 track mix, I'd definitely mix first, then master, but with 3 to 6 stereo stems, I find that I can get the best results mixing and mastering at the same time; the result produces the best results and the least compromise. For example, the mastering processing is going to affect the clarity of the midrange and through "slop" will probably leak down into the bass region, hopefully for the better. But in the case of this lopsided mix I just cited, the mastering processing could easily make one range better while making the other worse.
So, if mixing without the mastering processing, I may even try to take that into account, but if mixing with the mastering processing in place, I have it all in context at one time in the ideal acoustic of the mastering room.
Is this heresy? It's certainly a dangerous technique if placed in the wrong hands. You can end up with a less than ideal mix or less than ideal master if the mastering engineer does not think holistically. But if placed in the hands of an experienced mastering engineer, I think mixing from stems while mastering can produce the very best product. Separating out the bass instrument into a stereo stem with otherwise a mix minus, and sometimes separating out the vocal the same way can reduce the number of calls for a remix, I am convinced.
In other words, the lines between mixing and mastering have never been black and white. There has always been a gray area, and this method of mastering from stems grays it out even more!
The main purpose in this discussion was in the context of suggesting having a separate mastering engineer do the mastering from the stems, not in having a complete mixdown/mastering in one step.
If I am asked to both mix and master a project; if I am fortunate enough to do the mix from scratch in the mastering environment, then I probably would mix direct to 2 track without stems. I might run stems as a safety only; an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. On that note, I note that with digital technology, a single 10 second mistake can cost a whole day of makeup! We don't need no stinkin' backups
But I digress...
So, if I were mixing in the mastering environment I would probably just mix to 2 track WITHOUT MASTERING PROCESSING. But if I were mixing in a typical mixing environment, I would try to mix to stems if possible WITHOUT MASTERING PROCESSING.
What I'm saying is that although there is a gray area between mixing and mastering I don't advocate trying to combine the two processes when mixing completely from scratch. I only say that it is possible to do a good (better) job if you are the independent mastering engineer on the project and you receive stems instead of full mixes.


http://www.digido.com/bob-katz/mixin...nd-tricks.html

[nenad]

Ovo je skroz O.K. Ovo je odlicno resenje za ljude koji bi da smiksaju master. Ja sam jedan od takvih.Naravno da je najbolje da master rade ljudi koji se GODINAMA setaju po master sobama gde je slusanje sredjeno na skroz, ali svejedno da li se salje na master ili ne, ovo je dobar nacin da se i covek koji miksa priblizi konacnom zvuku pesme a samim tim i da "vidi" problem(ako postoji) u samom mixu. Uvek nesto zeza, nesto se muti nesto izlazi prstavo. Doduse probao sam jednom samo sa posebno izvezenim bubnjem i basom na jednoj strani i ostalim instrumentima na drugoj. Problem mi je bio mutan bubanj i bas, hteo sam da ih malo otvorim jer kad sam to pokusao sa kompletnim mixom ostali instrumenti su se zaostrili da je zvucalo . Uspeo sam da to, da kazem, odradim ali eto da sam se malo potrudio sve sam to mogo i u mixu da sredim pa pravac wavelab, ali eto barem sam nesto naucio. Ja SVE radim ITB, i to na ne bas nekom slusanju(ns10,matori hi_fi hitachi, creative inspire P280 i mali plavi TEAC od 5W) pa mi je ovakav nacin itekako od koristi. Tako je to kad covek hoce da bude SAM SVOJ MAJSTOR, bukvalno od sviraca preko miksadzije do masterdzije . Lose je to znam, ali za sada moram ovako(LOVA LOVA LOVA). Okacicu moj primer ovakvog nacina (nazovi) mastera.

[DaBear]

kod mene kad miksam, odredjeni instrumenti "rade" sa drugim instrumentima..preko kompresije, itd. Svi zajedno reaguju na jedne druge, pa na buss eq i kompresor.
Kada se sve to rasclani na grupe (stems) i odvojeno sklapa, vise nema te interakcije izmedju instrumenata / kompresora / eq-a itd...drugi je vibe, zvuk, sve je drugacije!!

Ako postoji heavy compression preko celog miksa, koji gura glas i sta vec..TO NIKADA NECE raditi kad se razdvoji...

A u mastering studiju koriste drugu vrstu kompresora i eq nego u studiju za snimanje, pa isti efekat i interakcija nemoze (opet) da se dobije.

Sve moze da se sredi u miksu, samo treba vremena..ako ne valja, ponovi miks! Svi otaljaju preko k***a pa posle mole boga i nadaju se da ce u masteringu da ga 'oprave. Hoce, al' zamalo!!

[idekius]

He, he... da je cesce ovakvih postova...
Bravo Vrach!!!