Mastering u Sonaru

[Techy Boy]

Pozdrav svima! Već neko vrijeme poku?avam masterizirat neke trackove u Sonaru 8, ali nikako da dobijem zadovoljavajuć rezultat. Radi se o deep, tech house mjuzi. Dakle, obično najprije maknem Dc offset, zatim ide 2 kanalni eq, compressor, eq i limiter. Problem je u tome ?to ne mogu dobit dovoljno jaku glasnoću kao npr. kod komercijalnih stvari. Limiter thr je na - 3 db. Imam dojam da mi stvari ispadnu akustički ravne i da fali malo vi?e prostornosti u stereo slici. Mixdown je bez dithera, bez normalizacije, na oko -3 db. Da li netko ima mo?da neki prijedlog kako da popravim postojeće stanje? Radi li netko u Sonaru? Po funkcijama je navodno sličan Nuendu...Svaki je savjet dobrodo?ao. Hvala.

[Everbeatz]

Ono sto tebi treba je bolji mixing, ne mastering...

[Techy Boy]

Originally Posted by Everlast

Ono sto tebi treba je bolji mixing, ne mastering...

Naravno da znam da mix treba bit ok. Da li zapravo trebam napraviti nekakav premastering tipa;


The tips here can apply to various DAWs and plug-ins including Logic Pro 8, Ableton Live, Cubase 4 and Reason 4.



Avoid over-compression

Compression is an essential tool in the mixing process and at some point you will find yourself reaching for your favourite plug-in, but a common mistake is to go too far. Some modern systems allow a nearly unlimited amount of processors to be used, but this sort of power requires the user to have a certain amount of self control. It?s really a case of asking yourself if a signal truly needs compressing or if you are applying the process simply because you can. Music is about dynamics and movement. If you squash the life out of every part in your mix the end result can closely resemble noise.

Of course, there is nothing wrong with selective creative compression as an effect but remember to keep an eye on those gain reduction meters and the amount of compressor plugs across your mixer. Perfect the balance between compressed and dynamic signals and your mastering processors will thank you for it.



Use subtractive EQ where possible

There is no doubt that some sounds in your mix will need certain frequencies to be boosted or cut. There is a temptation to boost high or low frequencies on every sound, as this may flatter the sounds in isolation. Bring these heavily EQ?d sounds together in the mix and the result may be confused and over-colored. In this scenario it is likely you are listening to more EQ than actual signal.

A good way around this problem is to use subtractive equalisation, as opposed to additive. This involves removing unneeded or problem areas of a signal and boosting the level. This results in the area you want to boost being raised in volume without adding any artificial processing. Using this method you will hear much more signal and less EQ, leading to a clearer and less coloured sound.

Filter bass frequencies for a clearer mix

In most genres of music a good balance in the bottom end is critical to a tight overall mix. The biggest pitfall here is to simply have too many instruments occupying the same frequency range. In electronic music, for example, it is not uncommon to have only the kick drum and bass occupying anything below about 250hz. All other instruments can be safely treated with a high pass filter to avoid anything below this area interfering with these all important instruments.

In other styles of music this extreme filtering may be too much but similar rules apply and a lot of thought should be put into instruments sharing the same frequency. Of course, instruments with a more organic frequency response, such as acoustic guitars, drums, brass and wind instruments, will not react well to hard filtering, so more subtle techniques such as shelving EQs should be employed. Broadly speaking though, carving areas for your low frequencies will result in a generally more coherent mix, whatever style you work with.

Filter bass frequencies for a clearer mix

In most genres of music a good balance in the bottom end is critical to a tight overall mix. The biggest pitfall here is to simply have too many instruments occupying the same frequency range. In electronic music, for example, it is not uncommon to have only the kick drum and bass occupying anything below about 250hz. All other instruments can be safely treated with a high pass filter to avoid anything below this area interfering with these all important instruments.

In other styles of music this extreme filtering may be too much but similar rules apply and a lot of thought should be put into instruments sharing the same frequency. Of course, instruments with a more organic frequency response, such as acoustic guitars, drums, brass and wind instruments, will not react well to hard filtering, so more subtle techniques such as shelving EQs should be employed. Broadly speaking though, carving areas for your low frequencies will result in a generally more coherent mix, whatever style you work with.

Use saturation effects

If some of your parts feel clinical and dry but reverbs and other effects are not called for, try using a saturation plug-in to impart some extra harmonics and warmth to the sound. There are plenty of plug-ins that perform this task very well and some producers swear by them.

A firm favourite is PSP?s Vintage Warmer, now at version 2. This plug has just about everything you need to achieve that analogue crunch many of us crave.

[Everbeatz]

Originally Posted by Techy Boy

Naravno da znam da mix treba bit ok. Da li zapravo trebam napraviti nekakav premastering tipa;

Pre-mastering bi vise bilo kao - dignes neki preset u Izotope Ozone da cujes kako bi to izgledalo nakon masteringa...otprilike

Ne znam, opet sam misljenja da se ljudi previse fokusiraju na mastering, a to je poslednja karika...i onda kad vide da to bas ne ide onako kao bi trebalo, shvate da ne znaju da urade do-it-yourself mastering, sto je i tacno, ali vise imaju uvid da prethodne radnje nisu dobro uradjene - odabir soundova, aranzman, mixanje..

Prob je sto ovde kod nas bas i nema nekih velikih mastering studija. Boravljenje pored coveka koji to radi je od velike pomoci - on moze dati savete gde se gresi - tj. kompresija, eq, prob akustike, slusanja itd..tako da je korisno da se nauci deo posla koji bi trebalo uraditi da bi nesto bilo spremno za mastering. Nije to samo lanac radnji koji si naveo, koji je poprilicno presetaskog tipa...mozda pola od toga uopste i ne treba da se radi


Ako radis nesto ozbiljno, posaljes nekom PRO da ti uradi mastering, ako je nekog drugog tipa, experimentises, istrazujes, citas, probas, pa na kraju zakljucis odredjene stvari...obicno to bude "there's no spoon"

[InsaneEyes]

Originally Posted by Everlast

...obicno to bude "there's no spoon"

to je taj fazon, odlicno si sazheo

[InsaneEyes]

pa eto, odgovorio si samom sebi prilicno dobro

Originally Posted by Techy Boy

P Problem je u tome što ne mogu dobit dovoljno jaku glasnoću kao npr. kod komercijalnih stvari.

to je iz mog neiskustva maltene nemoguca misija izvesti samo u daw-u digitalnim sabiranjem, pogotovu ako imas pregrst kanala... samo problemi ako pokusavas da dignes snagu, moras bas da si majstor nad majstorima

odnesi mix kod nekog na alalogni pult i remiksuj tamo

[Oggy]

Originally Posted by InsaneEyes

to je iz mog neiskustva maltene nemoguca misija izvesti samo u daw-u digitalnim sabiranjem, pogotovu ako imas pregrst kanala...

???

Originally Posted by InsaneEyes

odnesi mix kod nekog na alalogni pult i remiksuj tamo

??????

Saveta nikad dosta, ali ova dva (bez sumnje da su sa dobrom namerom, ali ipak...) ne treba uzeti "zdravo za gotovo" jer je jedan netacan, a drugi nema veze sa postavljenim pitanjem i NIKAKO ne znaci da je resenje problema.
Molim vas da oprezno savetujete...

[InsaneEyes]

Originally Posted by Oggy

Molim vas da oprezno savetujete...

vaistinu, pogotovu ako cirkate pivo ceo dan kao ovde npr

inace nije da se cimam oko toga par dana, vise je od deceniju sigurno, jednostavno, ne mogu da postignem glasnocu kao neke dance stvari ovih dana sto se vrte a da mi ne pumpa, a nije da ne alhemisem, alhemisem 15-ak godina, mozda mi jednostavno nije zvezdani dar za to pa se vadim kao mozda bih na tabli lakse disao, jednostavno me ubija to sto ne sme NISTA preko O db

[InsaneEyes]

Originally Posted by InsaneEyes

...mozda mi jednostavno nije zvezdani dar za to pa se vadim kao mozda bih na tabli lakse disao, jednostavno me ubija to sto ne sme NISTA preko O db

govorim o miksu ne o masteru

[Everbeatz]

Originally Posted by InsaneEyes

ne mogu da postignem glasnocu kao neke dance stvari ovih dana sto se vrte a da mi ne pumpa

Odgovor na tvoje pitanje je distorzija