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Audio Software VST, DX, AU.... plug-in instrumenti i efekti, modularni sintovi i dizajn modularne sinteze, semplovanje, semplovi i sample libraries diskusije, koje sekvencere, editore, plug-inse koristite. Da li je bolji Sonar ili Cubase? Sound Forge ili WaveLab?..

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Old 07-11-2005, 12:57 AM   #1
lesha
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Default ..floating vs. fixed point..

uvek me je zanimalo da li postoji razlika u kvalitetu sabirnice (summing) u digitalnom domenu..
istrazivao sam neko vreme i nasao zanimljiv clanak koji se bavi ovom temom..

www.rane.com/note153.html

nakon sto budete zavrsili sa citanjem clanka, verovatno ce vas zanimati koji host koristi prednost nepokretnog zareza..
nakon "kraceg" istrazivanja (opet ) dosao sam do saznanja da postoji samo jedan - sawstudio.

trenutno sam u fazi testiranja, program je ruzan kao djavo, strasno neintuitivan, ali verujem da cu uz pomoc help-a lako savladati pocetne teskoce..

do ovih odgovora sam dosao vodjen zeljom da jednom zauvek saznam koji host ima najbolji summing, nakon citanja postova na ableton forumu gde su ljudi iznosili primedbu na live-ov zvuk kod sumiranja.
sawstudio ne podrzava rewire, ali sam prostim routingom uspeo da uvezem zvuk iz live-a...

trenutno ne mogu da uporedim kvalitet krajnjeg mixa, da ne bih budio komsije, ali obecavam rezultate vec sutra..

poz
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Old 07-11-2005, 11:40 AM   #2
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Default Re: ..floating vs. fixed point..

...samo da se nadovezem-creamware efekti i mikseri koriste 32-bit floating point arhitekturu SHARC procesora...

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Old 07-11-2005, 05:01 PM   #3
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Default Re: ..floating vs. fixed point..

Quote:
Originally Posted by lesha
uvek me je zanimalo da li postoji razlika u kvalitetu sabirnice (summing) u digitalnom domenu..
istrazivao sam neko vreme i nasao zanimljiv clanak koji se bavi ovom temom..

www.rane.com/note153.html

nakon sto budete zavrsili sa citanjem clanka, verovatno ce vas zanimati koji host koristi prednost nepokretnog zareza..
nakon "kraceg" istrazivanja (opet ) dosao sam do saznanja da postoji samo jedan - sawstudio.

trenutno sam u fazi testiranja, program je ruzan kao djavo, strasno neintuitivan, ali verujem da cu uz pomoc help-a lako savladati pocetne teskoce..

do ovih odgovora sam dosao vodjen zeljom da jednom zauvek saznam koji host ima najbolji summing, nakon citanja postova na ableton forumu gde su ljudi iznosili primedbu na live-ov zvuk kod sumiranja.
sawstudio ne podrzava rewire, ali sam prostim routingom uspeo da uvezem zvuk iz live-a...

trenutno ne mogu da uporedim kvalitet krajnjeg mixa, da ne bih budio komsije, ali obecavam rezultate vec sutra..

poz
...a meni se ljudi smeju...neki su vec provalili,pa sumiraju u Saw-u sve trake ...umalo da i ja posumnjam u sebe A da je ruzan...prvi je
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Old 07-11-2005, 05:29 PM   #4
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Default Re: ..floating vs. fixed point..

A ja radim isto kao Sandro: iz Scope mixera u WaveLab
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Old 07-11-2005, 11:11 PM   #5
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Default Re: ..floating vs. fixed point..

joj, nisam stigao danas, sutra cu obavezno..
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Old 09-11-2005, 01:38 AM   #6
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Default Re: ..floating vs. fixed point..

evo i testa sa white noise-om (napravljen u sf) gde sam u live-u i sawstudiu pustio po 6 kanala na -16dB i renderovao na 16bit/44.1khz

rezultati su sledeci:
ableton live: peak= -0.5 dB / rms= -1.8 dB
sawstudio: peak= -0.4 dB / rms= -1.6 dB

na grafikonu sam zumirao prostor izmedju -38 do -42 dB kako bi se razlika sto bolje videla.

ableton je ljubicaste, sawstudio plave boje..

znam da ovaj test nista ne dokazuje, zato cu probati da uskoro uradim i merodavniji test sa nekim aranzmanom..

@ admins
bas je glupo ovo ogranicenje na 800x600..
umesto 24, sad mi je slika 64kb zbog smanjivanja
trebalo bi ograniciti velicinu u kilobajtima, ne u pixelima..

Last edited by lesha; 09-11-2005 at 01:40 AM.
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Old 09-11-2005, 01:55 AM   #7
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Default Re: ..floating vs. fixed point..

khm, brojke ne lazu, ovo na slici je sasvim pristojna razlika... cuje li se to e ?
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Old 09-11-2005, 01:59 AM   #8
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Default Re: ..floating vs. fixed point..

ako cujes pola decibela, onda da
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Old 09-11-2005, 02:00 AM   #9
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Default Re: ..floating vs. fixed point..

pa sad, izmedju -0.5 i 0 svakako cujem, u mixanju, ali izmedju -22.5 i -22 ne bas
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Old 13-11-2005, 07:20 PM   #10
lesha
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Default Re: ..floating vs. fixed point..

nadjoh danas malo vremena i evo konacno i testa sa demo songom iz ableton live-a, koga sam u realnom vremenu snimio u sawstudio na 24 bita (5 kanala), i na kraju exportovao u 16 bita..

live: peak 0 dB / rms -20.1 dB
saw: peak -3 dB / rms -20.2 dB

razlika se vidi na 2. slici, u pitanju je kick koga je live smiksao jace..

sto se tice spectrum analize, osim razlike izmedju levog i desnog kanala, mislim da ovo definitivno pokazuje da ne postoji neka bitna razlika..

sto ce reci - "mixing in the box" razlika izmedju ableton live-a i navodno najboljeg sawstudio-a skoro i ne postoji..
tim bolje.


evo i audio fajlova..
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File Type: mp3 ableton live demo song_live.mp3 (292.6 KB, 291 views)
File Type: mp3 ableton live demo song_sawstudio.mp3 (292.6 KB, 280 views)

Last edited by lesha; 20-04-2007 at 07:58 PM.
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