Paul Frindle - istine i mitovi o digitalnoj obradi zvuka

[awacs]

Hm, mo?da nije pristojno otvarati thread temom iz drugog foruma, ali Mr. Frindle na?alost nije član Rumskog, pa dok ga ne pozovemo za gosta evo jednog interesantnog threada sa GS:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music...ruth-myth.html

Ko ne zna ko je Paul Frindle (a mrzi ga da pretresa Internet): dizajner G kanalnog modula za SSL, jedan od kreatora Sony Oxford Miksete, autor Sonnox pluginova...

Pozdrav,

Vasa

[Everbeatz]

To je super thread

[awacs]

Originally Posted by Everlast

To je super thread

Ja ga tek danas otkrih, ali nije mi žao što sam zakasnio. Super literatura za ove zimske dane kad ionako ne radim ništa drugo do trčanja u podrum da ubacim novu turu drva u kotao

Pozdrav,

Vasa

P.S. Evo baš sam došao do posta #79 (http://www.gearslutz.com/board/5968777-post79.html). O nečemu sličnom smo baš skoro pričali u okviru one teme http://www.rumski.com/forum/showthre...t=40141&page=6 od posta #59 pa nadalje

[Jan]

Originally Posted by awacs

Hm, mo?da nije pristojno otvarati thread temom iz drugog foruma, ali Mr. Frindle na?alost nije član Rumskog, pa dok ga ne pozovemo za gosta evo jednog interesantnog threada sa GS:

http://www.gearslutz.com/board/music...ruth-myth.html

Ko ne zna ko je Paul Frindle (a mrzi ga da pretresa Internet): dizajner G kanalnog modula za SSL, jedan od kreatora Sony Oxford Miksete, autor Sonnox pluginova...

Pozdrav,

Vasa

I kreator jednog od najboljih pluginova po meni Dynamic Spectrum Mapper. Mogao bih ceo miks da uradim samo sa tim pluginom i jednim okej reverbom i delayem.

[Moritz]

Ko zaista hoce da shvati shvatice, ali ovim je sve receno! " Originally Posted by Paul Frindle
I never comment on other people's S/W, especially when I have absolutely no idea what's in it. And since I have a reputation of telling it how it is (even if I suffer financially for it), it's unlikely that anyone would seek my opinion in public as part of their marketing campaign.

Luckily, with audio we have the luxury of 'messing about', no planes are going to fall out of the sky and no nuclear missles are going to be erroneously launched because of our marketing driven consumeresque 'popularist tech' - LOL. If it makes you feel happy and you like what you get from this stuff, you can safely use it, remembering that if you feel good it's likely you will produce better results (I could do a whole book in this stuff from studio experience - it's not trivial and it is important. It's what's called artistic freedom - and long may is prosper. Also please remember that the financial situation ensures that we can only afford to make what you people will buy - and what you buy is heavily influenced by how you feel about it and is not soley constrained by what it actually does

But from a technical point of view it's obvious that since processing can add up numbers almost perfectly (better than anything that could make a difference within the known universe), anything else is forcibly worse. If one thinks 'out of the box', ignore the hype and considers this in the cold light of day, it speaks volumes about our industry (and human psychology) that the one single thing digital processing can do better than anything else in the universe is exactly the very thing that you have been persuaded is flawed! It's both comical and sad all at the same time.

The whole argument about 'summing' is completely false from a technical standpoint and the differences people notice when say flying out of the box into an analogue mixer and reconverting back to digital again are caused by the many intrusive effects of the conversions and interfaces.

As for the so called SSL sound - as most of you know, I designed much of this stuff (especially the G series) and I can tell you there's nothing magic about the technologly used - we got the best performance we could from the technology at our disposal. We would have dearly loved to get anywhere near the performance of todays cheap DAWs and decent plug-ins - but it was simply impossible back then, because we were constrained in analogue by the laws of physics.

The sound people got from the SSL was due massively to the features of the console itself - the way the user was encouraged to operate it (by the fixed control surface) - and the fashion of the times. And don't imagine that that some 'magic' exists in the 'errors of the system' either - apart from a bit of noise (unavoidable in large scale analogue systems), the errors were as low as we could make them (obviously) and are absolutely not the cause of it's success. And please do not take it a stage further as some people have done, and think that some ethereal magic happened due to factors we didn't realise - we were not simply fiddling around - and we did know what we were doing

You cannot magically obtain this from trying to analyse it and 'emulate' it - and more to the point, you cannot ensure the financial successes and environments of that era by simply having a 'name' on your screen. The world has changed technically for the better by miles and the fiscal situation of the industry has completely changed - the important thing is to embrace it and use it to the fullest extent - not get hung up on a virtual past

So even though I designed much of the analogue stuff people are worshipping, you won't see an SSL 'emulation' from me - because I would consider this unfair! If you want to use what I would have made back then had it have been technically possible, go to Sonnox and get hold of the Oxford EQ and Dynamics

BTW - that this not a Sonnox marketing plug. I don't work for them and I get nothing from the sales of the stuff I designed when at Sony " sto se kaze u narodu " Tacka i veliko slovo ..."

[DaBear]

Bravo Moritz sto si izvadio ovo - TO JE SUSTINA celog thread-a ! Ja sam se brzo umorio od citanja, pa sam stao..

Covek je ovim SVE OBJASNIO MRMOTIMA i TROLOVIMA i ostalima...

[Everbeatz]

I'm totally convinced that we can make distortion as good as analogue if we put our minds to it - and I'm even more convinced we could make much better new distortion effects too. There is no need to refer to the past particularly - unless you are trying to jump on the back of someone else's effort for marketing purposes, or you are not prepared to trully understand what makes something really special artistically.

I ovo mi je odlican citat - koji objasnjava 'marketinske strategije' i brojnost 'emulacija' u danasnje vreme

Umesto da DSP programeri trose vreme praveci nove vrste procesinga/plugova zatrpavaju emulacijama LA2A, 1176, itd

[soundman]

Fab filter je jedna od retkih firmi koja to upravo radi.

[awacs]

Originally Posted by soundman

Fab filter je jedna od retkih firmi koja to upravo radi.

... uz Sonnox, Sound Toys i jo? poneke

Ali postoji jo? ne?to ?to mi se često vrzma po glavi: svi pluginovi koji danas postoje, pod uslovom da im se pristupi bez predrasuda, su zapravo autonomni.

To ?to neki plugin ima interface koji liči na Urei 1176 ili Neve 1073 ili Marshall JCM 800 ili Fender Twin Reverb ima veze sa ergonomijom i logikom aparata, i to je dovoljno. Najmanje je bitno da li se plugin zaista pona?a kao izvorni hardver. Ako mu pristupi? bez predrasuda (figurativno govorim u drugom licu, ne obraćam se tebi lično) to je prosto neki kompresor, EQ, gitarski procesor, ?tagod... Kao ?to su uostalom i navedeni originalni aparati prosto neki kompresori, EQ-i, gitarski procesori...

Ono ?to se stalno provlači kroz Frindlovu priču je mantra "ovde i sad" i to je (bar meni) najdragocenija pouka tog threada, na stranu sve tehnikalije o kojima priča.

Pozdrav,

Vasa

[Solozabal]

Ako moram izabrat nekog ciji su mi savjeti najvise pomogli onda je to on.. Tako nesebicno djeljenje svog znanja iza kojeg stoji ogromno iskustvo je odlika samo velikih ljudi koje nije osvojila egocentricnost.
Mozda ce netko pomisliti da iza svega toga stoji mozda nekakva kampanja ili vlastiti interes, ali bilo kako bilo ja prema tome covjeku osjecam zahvalnost.
Da je vise ovakvih kao on gdje bi nam bio kraj...