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Dizajn i konstrukcija studija Diskusije i pomoc oko svih aspekata dizajna i konstrukcije kucnog/pro studija, gluve ili kontrolne sobe, tretman zidova i materijala...

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Old 12-11-2012, 04:39 PM   #1
BlasterMaster
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Default Blackbird studio C, again...

pitanjce jedno samo (van "diskusije"), ako je negde navedeno, jel su oni Massenburg-ovi mdf spike-ovi tretirani nekim finish lakom ili ne? i za koju efektivnu hercazu su radjeni? izgledaju totalno random, ali razmisljam ako su redjani tacno po paternu iz proracuna, i jos ako je svaki obradjen pa lakiran, debelo se neko naradio dok ih je redjao
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Old 13-11-2012, 12:19 AM   #2
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Default Re: Jos jedna diskusija o materijalima za apsorpciju

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pitanjce jedno samo (van "diskusije"), ako je negde navedeno, jel su oni Massenburg-ovi mdf spike-ovi tretirani nekim finish lakom ili ne? i za koju efektivnu hercazu su radjeni? izgledaju totalno random, ali razmisljam ako su redjani tacno po paternu iz proracuna, i jos ako je svaki obradjen pa lakiran, debelo se neko naradio dok ih je redjao
Koliko sam video na "close-up" slikama, nicim nisu mazani. Inace mislim da nikada nisu ti stapovi odvajani od maticne ploce, nego su samo "zaseceni" cnc ruterom, pa su ostaci poslagani i stegnuti (zalepljeni?).... a sto se tice "hercaze"... mislim da difuzija pocinje od ispod 100Hz, mada je apsorpcija takodje znatna (2D difuzor)
Da, MDF se lepi lepkom na bazi urea-formaldehida, koji je proglasen "verovatnim kancerogenim materijalom", ali i dalje su nacin zivota, ishrana, pusenje, industrijska zagadjenja, radijacija, nasledni faktori rizika.... osnovni izazivaci.
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Old 13-11-2012, 12:40 AM   #3
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Default Re: Jos jedna diskusija o materijalima za apsorpciju

Jeste da, jesu i nešto zagonetni, nisu komentarisali oko toga, barem vosak i ulje bi (možda) bilo u redu, možda da su imali kakvu sakrivenu agendu pa da absorbuju i sa "neobrađenim" MDF-jem (MDF absorbuje više frekvencije ako nije "lakiran") i ništa nije na pamet "random" nego je sve izračunato.
MDF je veoma hidroskopičan ako nije premazan sa nečim...

Neki poznati detalji:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0ByI...DBfc09oMGVrWEU
od 65-70 stranice.

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Koliko sam video na "close-up" slikama, nicim nisu mazani. Inace mislim da nikada nisu ti stapovi odvajani od maticne ploce, nego su samo "zaseceni" cnc ruterom, pa su ostaci poslagani i stegnuti (zalepljeni?).... a sto se tice "hercaze"... mislim da difuzija pocinje od ispod 100Hz, mada je apsorpcija takodje znatna (2D difuzor)
Da, MDF se lepi lepkom na bazi urea-formaldehida, koji je proglasen "verovatnim kancerogenim materijalom", ali i dalje su nacin zivota, ishrana, pusenje, industrijska zagadjenja, radijacija, nasledni faktori rizika.... osnovni izazivaci.
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Last edited by NLP; 13-11-2012 at 08:11 PM.
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Old 13-11-2012, 12:58 AM   #4
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Default Re: Jos jedna diskusija o materijalima za apsorpciju

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Jeste da, jesu i ne?to zagonetni, nisu komentarisali oko toga, barem vosak i ulje bi (mo?da) bilo u redu, mo?da da su imali kakvu sakrivenu agendu pa da absorbuju i sa "neobrađenim" MDF-jem (MDF absorbuje vi?e frekvencije ako nije "lakiran") i ni?ta nije na pamet "random" nego je sve izračunato.
.....
s obzirom da su ignorisali pravilo o minimalnom rastojanju slusaoca od difuzora, ipak je bolje sto nisu povecavali reflektivnost.
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Old 13-11-2012, 01:03 AM   #5
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Default Re: Jos jedna diskusija o materijalima za apsorpciju

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Originally Posted by BlasterMaster View Post
pitanjce jedno samo (van "diskusije"), ako je negde navedeno, jel su oni Massenburg-ovi mdf spike-ovi tretirani nekim finish lakom ili ne? i za koju efektivnu hercazu su radjeni? izgledaju totalno random, ali razmisljam ako su redjani tacno po paternu iz proracuna, i jos ako je svaki obradjen pa lakiran, debelo se neko naradio dok ih je redjao
Ako se ne varam, na plafonima su jos i mnogo veci difuzori, koji "se brinu" za ovo ispod 150-200Hz..Da evo provjerio sam na jednoj fotki..velii difuzori na plafonu, sa ovim manjim na svojem licu...
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Old 13-11-2012, 01:05 AM   #6
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Default Re: Jos jedna diskusija o materijalima za apsorpciju

Inace, soba je jako klostrofobicna i "cudna" za raditi u njoj, kako sam cuo od nekih koji su radili tamo. Naravno to zavisi od osobe, ali moralo bi biti malo "mutoglavo" medju svim tim "stapovima"
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Old 13-11-2012, 01:08 AM   #7
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Default Re: Jos jedna diskusija o materijalima za apsorpciju

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Ako se ne varam, na plafonima su jos i mnogo veci difuzori....
Na plafonu je laksi dizajn,... fraktalni 2D difuzori.... verovatno zbog manje nosivosti plafona.
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Old 13-11-2012, 01:17 AM   #8
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Default Re: Jos jedna diskusija o materijalima za apsorpciju

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Na plafonu je laksi dizajn,... fraktalni 2D difuzori.... verovatno zbog manje nosivosti plafona.
Da da tako nekako...pod "veci" sam mislio povrsinski..
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Old 13-11-2012, 05:17 PM   #9
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Default Re: Jos jedna diskusija o materijalima za apsorpciju

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Koliko sam video na "close-up" slikama, nicim nisu mazani. Inace mislim da nikada nisu ti stapovi odvajani od maticne ploce, nego su samo "zaseceni" cnc ruterom, pa su ostaci poslagani i stegnuti (zalepljeni?).... a sto se tice "hercaze"... mislim da difuzija pocinje od ispod 100Hz, mada je apsorpcija takodje znatna (2D difuzor)
Da, MDF se lepi lepkom na bazi urea-formaldehida, koji je proglasen "verovatnim kancerogenim materijalom", ali i dalje su nacin zivota, ishrana, pusenje, industrijska zagadjenja, radijacija, nasledni faktori rizika.... osnovni izazivaci.
Svi "stapovi" su odvojeno seckani (!!)
Potrosili su 1532 table MDF-a od 2,5 cm !!
To je bilo tesko 90 tona (pre secenja) a posle secenja je ostalo 40 tona...
i nema dva stapa da su iste duzine...

Construction of the new room utilized 1,532 sheets of one-inch?thick medium-density fiberboard (MDF). Ninety tons of MDF were cut and milled to a final cut weight of 40 tons. Beginning with a room footprint of 36' x 25' x 27', the one-inch square MDF pegs come out of the walls and ceiling in lengths that vary from 6 to 40 inches ? and no two of the hundreds of thousands of ?tines? are the same length. The room uses 2D diffusion, whereby two-dimensional diffusers offer depth variation in two perpendicular directions, forming a lattice of divided cells or steps of varying depth. ?Studio C utilized the largest prime number sequence that has ever been actualized in a room,? notes Massenburg. ?Our prime number is 138,167.?

?The basic idea is that you walk in and very quickly you are listening to a musical balance. You are able to tell a story with a mix. The lows and the highs are easier to perceive because they have roughly the same ambience, the same reverberation time. We don?t have any fiberglass on the walls ? it absorbs largely at high frequencies and is less likely to absorb at low frequencies. Any absorption in this room is caused by several processes, including the air turbulence around all these edges, and the scattering of reflective sound from all these surfaces. Dr. D?Antonio has referred to our principle in action as ?ambechoic.?

?The room is conducive to accurate work because we have taken away the boundary effect by ?eliminating? the walls. The boundary effect is usually a speaker set away from the wall, which causes comb filtering because the sound hits the wall and bounces back at a different time than the direct signal from the speaker. Certain frequencies are canceled and certain frequencies are enforced, which is not a good idea in a critical listening environment.?

Ceo clanak - http://www2.digidesign.com/digizine/...=101&navid=907
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Old 13-11-2012, 05:49 PM   #10
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Default Re: Jos jedna diskusija o materijalima za apsorpciju

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Svi "stapovi" su odvojeno seckani (!!)..........
Ma nisu... (gnusna ) zapadnjacka propaganda!
Vidi se na donjoj slici da dva susedna "stapa", gde je jedan nesto kraci, nisu odvojeni, i vidi se oblina od CNC bita (mislim da je 1/2" precnik bita). Samo su konture pojedinih slajsova isecene u 1" MDF, pa su slajsovi polepljeni medjusobno.... tako je mnogo lakse a nema razlike u dizajnu/funkciji.

Toliko o "stapovima".... a ovde smo vec racunali neke troskove...
http://www.rumski.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19211 (i skapirali da cena nije "beskonacna"... daleko od toga)

EDIT: Na ovoj slici se vidi da nema nikakvog finisha preko MDF...
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