Re: snimanje klavijatura u studiu?
 

Da ne otvaram novi. Ukratko, kako povecati dinamicki opseg digitalnim hardverskim sintisajzerima (rompleri, VA) pri usnimavanju (ili uzivo) ?

Zvuk digitalne tehnike grubo receno vidim kao 2D sliku analogno-elektromehanickog zvuka. Tanak i komprimovan (ovo je grubo receno da bih istakao ideju). Kako npr. zvuk DX e.piano procesirati da u snimku bude velicine pravog Rhodesa ili Wurlitzera ?

Probao bih provlacenje kroz lampaske preampove, EQ, FX, kompresor. Ima li ko da podeli svoja iskustva sa konkretnim spravama, da ne lutam previse ?

Re: snimanje klavijatura u studiu?
 

Druze, malo si pobrkao lonchice. Evo procitaj za pocetak ovo, pa nastavi dalje..

Dynamic range

Dynamic range is the difference between the largest and smallest signal a system can record or reproduce. With the proper application of dither, digital systems can reproduce signals with levels lower than their resolution would normally allow

Digital audio

A set of digital audio samples contains data that, when converted into an analog signal, provides the necessary information to reproduce the sound wave. In pulse-code modulation (PCM) sampling, the bit depth will limit signal-to-noise ratio (S/N). The bit depth will not limit frequency range, which is limited by the sample rate.
By increasing the sampling bit depth, quantization noise is reduced so that the S/N is improved. The 'rule-of-thumb' relationship between bit depth and S/N is, for each 1-bit increase in bit depth, the S/N will increase by 6 dB.<sup id="cite_ref-2" class="reference">[2]</sup><sup id="cite_ref-3" class="reference">[3]</sup> 24-bit digital audio has a theoretical maximum S/N of 144 dB, compared to 96 dB for 16-bit; however, as of 2007 digital audio converter technology is limited to a S/N of about 124 dB (21-bit)<sup id="cite_ref-4" class="reference">[4]</sup> because of real world limitations in integrated circuit design. Still, this approximately matches the performance of the human ear.<sup id="cite_ref-5" class="reference">[5]</sup><sup id="cite_ref-6" class="reference">[6]</sup>
Technically speaking, bit depth is only meaningful when applied to pure PCM devices. Non-PCM formats, such as lossy compression systems like MP3, have bit depths that are not defined in the same sense as PCM. In lossy audio compression, where bits are allocated to other types of information, the bits actually allocated to individual samples are allowed to fluctuate within the constraints imposed by the allocation algorithm.

24-bit quantization
24-bit audio is sometimes used undithered, because for most audio equipment and situations the noise level of the digital converter can be louder than the required level of any dither that might be applied.
There is some disagreement over the recent trend towards higher bit-depth audio. It is argued by some that the dynamic range presented by 16-bit is sufficient to store the dynamic range present in almost all music. In terms of pure data storage this is often true, as a high-end system can extract an extremely good sound out of the 16-bits stored in a well-mastered CD. However, audio with very loud and very quiet sections can require some of the above dithering techniques to fit it into 16-bits. This is not a problem for most recently produced popular music, which is often mastered so that it constantly sits close to the maximum signal (see loudness war); however, higher resolution audio formats are already being used (especially for applications such as film soundtracks, where there is often a very wide dynamic range between whispered conversations and explosions).
For most situations the advantage given by resolution higher than 16-bit is mainly in the processing of audio. No digital filter is perfect, but if the audio is upsampled and the audio is done in 24-bit or higher, then the distortion introduced by filtering will be much quieter (as the errors always creep into the least significant bits) and a well-designed filter can weight the distortion more towards the higher inaudible frequencies (but a sample rate higher than 48kHz is needed so that these inaudible ultrasonic frequencies are available for soaking up errors).
There is also a good case for 24-bit (or higher) recording in the live studio, because it enables greater headroom (often 24dB or more rather than 18dB) to be left on the recording without encountering quantization errors at low volumes. This means that brief peaks are not harshly clipped, but can be compressed or soft-limited later to suit the final medium.
Environments where large amounts of signal processing are required (such as mastering or synthesis) can require even more than 24 bits. Some modern audio editors convert incoming audio to 32-bit (both for an increased dynamic range to reduce clipping, and to minimize noise in intermediate stages of filtering).

Re: snimanje klavijatura u studiu?
 

Ako ga snimis preko lampe, moze i tako, ali onda sve ostaje usnimljeno - moja praksa je da ga dodatno obradim ako treba, a da usnimak bude sto transparentniji. Moze da se obradi i tim mic preampom, ali mislim da mozes dobiti mnogo bolje rezultate primenjujuci pravilno kompresore, EQove i ostalo.

Naravno, ovo sto si napisao o digitalnom zvuku je apsurdno i pogresno. Mozda je zvuk sa neke odredjene klavijature takav zbog samog kvaliteta iste, ali definitivno "tankom zvuku" sa klavijature nije uzrok to sto klavijatura nema analogni preamp. Tako da neces nista resiti analognim preampom, narocito sto on nema neki dramatican efekat na zvuk.

Re: snimanje klavijatura u studiu?
 

Ja retko kad koristim interne efekte sa klavijatura i digitalnih sintova...Pogasi sve, mnogi cak imaju interni EQ/compression setup pa mozda zato imas utisak da je zvuk tanak/2D - sto je uradjeno namerno.

Evo uzeo bi primer za DX kada si vec spomenuo... Za FM sintove kada su bili najkorisceniji, pa cak i elektricni klaviri kao Rhodes, standardna praksa (narocito 80tih kada su dominirali u skoro svakoj pesmi) je bila da se sve provlaci kroz chorus (roland dimension d), ambient/room reverb, kratki stereo-pan delay, onda na sve to blaga saturacija (u to vreme traka je radila svoje), kompresija i EQ po potrebi. Nista revolucionarno, osim kada koristis stand-alone FX uz ozbiljan software/hardware daleko bolje rezultate postizes.

Re: snimanje klavijatura u studiu?
 

E, bas to! To sam bio napisao prvo, pa ne znam zasto obrisao... Reverb na prosecnom aranzeru je stvarno :scared: Svi ti efekti na klavijaturama su prosecnog kvaliteta, tanki i metalni. Po mogucstvu - izbeci.

Re: snimanje klavijatura u studiu?
 

Ok, moze biti da sam bio nejasan svima, ali takva je muzika. Zasnovana na individualnom dozivljaju i iskustvu. Ko je dugo radio sa zivim bubnjem, basom i elektro-akustikom, ne moze da ne primeti razliku. Bar ja ne mogu.
Da se ne bi neko uvredio, postujem sve muzicke pravce, i u nekima od njih se sve pravi na staroj analogiji, digitaliji ili VA - tu bolje nema i ne treba. Mene zanimaju prakticne situacije (teorija me ne zanima) kada jedno pored drugog idu 'zivi' instrumenti i klavijature/moduli. Tu su mi ovi drugi nekako neubedljivi.
Svakako hvala svima na odgovorima. Nadam se da ce nam jos neko otkriti nesto iz svog iskustva.

Re: snimanje klavijatura u studiu?
 

Teorija te ne zanima i ne zelis da uchis al bi da snimas dobro i da ti se sint ne kolje sa bubnjem...Iz tog razloga i gajish te iluzije u glavi sto se tichu muzike generalno, sintova, modula....
Ubodi sint u kartu, snimi ga i to je to. Nece ti pomoci nikakav savet, veruj mi

Re: snimanje klavijatura u studiu?
 

Pitanje dobrog aranzmana, ideje, sluha... klavijature imaju svoj zvuk koji je orginalan i neponovljiv.. kao sto elektricne gitare ne rastu po drvecu , tj nisu prirodni" osclatori, tako i synthove treba shvatiti kao nadogragnju prirode... Glavna razlika je u kvalitetu i autenticnosti zvuka pojedinih sinthova (ceni zvuka") i treba birati onaj zvuk koji lezi u aranzmanu.. To je stvar osecaja autora ili aranzera.

Re: snimanje klavijatura u studiu?
 

Jednu stvar bih jos rekao a nema bas veze sa tehnickim delom usnimavanja...

MNOGO ali zaista MNOGO zavisi od sviraca. Imas ljude koji sednu za sint i od neke jadnjikave farbe svojom svirkom naprave da zvuci kao kuca ... Neka ti to bude na umu.

Re: snimanje klavijatura u studiu?
 

Aleksandre, procitaj ono sto je cika Synclavier na strani 4 ove iste teme napisao... Stvarno je dao par pametnih saveta i za snimanje i za pojmanje citave price oko klavijatura.

Takodje, u tome i jeste poenta - teorija + praksa. Mislim, niko ne moze na posluzavniku da servira konkretno redosled plaginova koji ti treba, da bi ti odredjena klavijatura legla u miksu - zivom ili studijskom... Kad isprocesiras klavu analognim efektima, moze da bude JOS GORA I TANJA, ako npr upropastis daljom pogresnom ekvilajzacijom. Ili stavis neki "analogni" reverb od "sto kila" i zamutis neku ionako rasplinutu farbu... Analogni ili ne - ista stvar.

E sad, ako imas predrasuda protiv digitalija - tvoja stvar, mozda mislis da je zvuk subjektivna pojava, mozda i jeste, ali poenta je u pravom izboru alata, ne mozes vaser vagom da ukucavas ekser, pa makar bila i ona prava, aluminijumska - ako me razumes (dobro - mozes, ali tesko :D)

Opet, po deseti put - ako je boja na klavijaturi jadna, i ako je svirac los - tesko da ce da "zazvuci", nema magicnog stapica nigde.