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View Full Version : Loudness war is over??? ili Vratite dinamiku pesmama???


dejankuki
16-02-2009, 03:46 PM
Hmm , nadjoh ovaj tekst..http://dynamicrange.de/en/our-aim pa rekoh da ga podelim sa vama. Ja licno sam ZA...



The Pleasurize Music Foundation is launching a wide-ranging initiative for ending the "Loudness War" being waged by successive music releases. This initiative aims to introduce a dynamic standard through several phases.

This technology makes it possible to provide releases with a whole-number dynamic value to be printed on the recording medium as a logo, giving consumers an immediate means of knowing the dynamic quality of a recording. In addition, an online database is planned for furnishing information on music already released with the standard.

In this way, conditions have been met for the creation of a single standard for audio recorded media – a step which was taken by the film industry over thirty years ago. Music with small dynamic range has a low value, for example DR4 (Dynamic Range = 4dB):

http://www.it4um.com/forum/download/file.php?mode=view&id=5974&sid=83dc6761d4046b278a7557e22bec7f5f

The waveform is greatly squeezed so that it is as intrusive and loud as possible.

Music with a large dynamic range has a higher DR value, for example DR14 or more:

http://www.it4um.com/forum/download/file.php?mode=view&id=5973

In this case, music can breathe and loud events are actually louder.

Founder and conceptual father Friedemann Tischmeyer on the functions and aims of the Foundation: "We believe that music – as an artistic means of expression – should transmit emotions.

Nowadays, this is possible only to a limited degree because dynamics — a fundamental part of expressivity — are often missing. On a subconscious level, emotions are expressed by musicians emphasized with a feeling of urgency or insistence. Modern mainstream music sounds like a flatly pressed board being rammed through loudspeakers and uses the greatest possible amount of intrusiveness just as advertising does – as a means of constantly trying to get the listener's attention. In this way, a fundamental aspect of music is lost.

Countless consumers who are old enough to remember more dynamic music are not even aware of what is wrong with releases nowadays.

The experience of buying music has become frustrating. Who wants to spend money for music that just beats your ears? This process of over-compressing music has been occurring in such a gradual, insidious way that many industry professionals are unable to draw clear boundaries between music that is overcompressed and music that is not.

One thing is for sure: when we turn music off because it is getting on our nerves, then it is probably because of a lack of dynamics. Unfortunately, strongly compressed music is also an unpleasant way of generating aggression. We who create music have a certain responsibility with regards to the rest of society."

How did this phenomenon happen?
"The arrival of digital technology has made it technically possible for this process, thereby answering the commercial need of simply wanting to be heard. The principle is: 'Whoever shouts the loudest will be heard.' For labels and radio stations, loudness is the most important criterion in music.

And that is where our work begins: We aim to provide qualified information so that people understand that loudness is not a measure of quality in music! There is a great lack of information in this area which has taken on huge proportions: most young people have never heard truly dynamic music played over a good-sounding hi-fi system. I believe that some of them would be so emotionally overwhelmed that they would cry with joy when hearing truly dynamic music under such conditions."

What made you begin this wide-reaching initiative?
"As a mastering engineer I stand right in the crossfire between the detail-work of trying to obtain the best possible sound and the commericial pressures of my customers. Even when a customer knows that the sound suffers when dynamic range is further decreased, they accept this for fear of not being heard. This makes all my efforts involving working on fine nuances of sound practically obsolete. The only choice we are given is to make the loudest possible master with the least amount of sound-quality damage. Of course, that is not a satisfying way of working – all of the leading mastering engineers in the world agree here.

We therefore believe that our standard will increase the value of music. It is too simplistic to make the MP3 format out to be the scapegoat with regards to the current market situation in the entire music industry. The truth is more complex. The loss of emotional value in music is also a big part of this. We believe that our standard will strengthen the entire music industry. As soon as good-sounding music is once again purchased, musicians and all the creative people involved in making and producing music will profit."

You can actively help out by supporting the work of the Pleasurize Music Foundation so that in the future you will be able to recognize how dynamic your favorite group is with the DR Value Logo printed on the CD inlay.

We are asking all musicians, producers, listeners, and others involved with the creation of music to sign up under:

http://www.dynamicrange.de --> SignUp The volume knob belongs to us!

Only when radio stations and recording companies become aware that intrusive and grating sound is no measure of music quality will the Loudness War be stopped! Emotion is the fundamental intention of music.

To learn more about the Pleasurize Music Foundation and the free Dynamic Range Meter, go to our Website:
http://www.DynamicRange.de or http://www.PleasurizeMusic.com

HeatMan
16-02-2009, 04:37 PM
pametno.. ali ne vidim poentu.. produkcija house muzike, je mozda chak i zasnovana na pumpanju rmsa i smanjivanju dinamike u pesmama..

svaki zanr ima neki okvirni dinamichki raspon.. osim ako retardi rade pesmu i baladu samo sa klavirom i glasom napumpaju toliko da jedva ostane 4db dinamike.. (prim: rhianna - unfaithful)

poz

ELEKTROIVO
16-02-2009, 09:48 PM
činjenica je da glazbenici (nemislim pritom na techno i slične elektro-pravce) koji uspiju prenjeti emociju u pjesmama na svoju publku traju desetljećima na sceni......

DeMa
16-02-2009, 11:18 PM
Hvala bogu e da se to hoce probiti.

Pozz
Denis

kejkz
17-02-2009, 08:34 AM
pametno.. ali ne vidim poentu.. produkcija house muzike, je mozda chak i zasnovana na pumpanju rmsa i smanjivanju dinamike u pesmama...
Naravno, mozes ti da pumpas rms koliko hoces, odnosno da smanjujes dinamiku, ali da ne dizes to sto si dobio po svaku cenu do 0db digitalnog peak-a, tako da ima poentu.

Arthur
17-02-2009, 08:36 AM
a i da vidiš kakav bi punch imao house da nije rođen pod spaljivačkom zvezdom ;)

HeatMan
17-02-2009, 07:41 PM
Naravno, mozes ti da pumpas rms koliko hoces, odnosno da smanjujes dinamiku, ali da ne dizes to sto si dobio po svaku cenu do 0db digitalnog peak-a, tako da ima poentu.

ne kapiram

Everbeatz
17-02-2009, 08:30 PM
Iskreno, nemam nista protiv muzike koja je glasna i u isto vreme dobro odradjena

Mislim da ce u danasnje vreme vise biti problem sa nekvalitetnim pesmama, muzicarima kojima treba editing, snimanju i mixanju koje nije odradjeno kako treba. Preteranoj upotrebi semplova takodje..

Kad se sve to spoji jasno je da su ljudi koji rade mastering u poziciju da udovoljavaju klijentima koji nemaju nista drugo da ponude osim glasnoce

Rhino
18-02-2009, 05:05 AM
Ja volim kad pojacam samo do 'dvojke' a ono MNOGO GLASNO:D:rotfl:

fipke
18-02-2009, 11:39 PM
borimo se borimo se.....no ne mogu reci da ne gubim rat, svake godine popustim za 0.1 db na masteru :ups:

kVu
19-02-2009, 04:43 AM
borimo se borimo se.....no ne mogu reci da ne gubim rat, svake godine popustim za 0.1 db na masteru :ups:

ma bitno je kaki je ko covek!

Treger
19-02-2009, 09:10 PM
Pa samo nemojte slati na master trekove i mixajte bez kompresora na masteru :rotfl:

LACKY
19-02-2009, 09:15 PM
Necu bre, da vracam dinamiku. Dajte nam jos RMS-a.
Ziveli decibeli i przenje zvucnika!
Sta sam ja bre Bogu zgresio! 20-is' godina me jebu da bude deblje i glasnije! I sad puj-pike ne vazi, e nemoze, daj te decibela za sve pare!
To kao unistava muziku! Pa unistilo je onu koja odavno vise nikome nije interesantna. A nove su nastale bas zbog decibela!
Ziveli decibeli! Ako nista bar da bi bili moderni.:cry:

Srjahn
20-02-2009, 12:20 AM
ma bitno je kaki je ko covek!Matori realno :)

Jan
20-02-2009, 03:49 AM
Znaci realno jako mi se svidja ideja, zasto napucavati finalne trake na -11, -10, -9 RMS, sa cigla waveform-ovima, kad sve moze da bude lepo dinamicno i mnogo bi sve bilo zdravije...Znaci, nemam petlju da pustim neko izdanje da ide tiho, ali cim pre vidim neko poznato izdanje (a da je neka moderna popularna muzika) da je tako uradjeno bez "gazenja", odmah cu da se prikljucim pokretu, za sad me je strah...

idekius
21-02-2009, 01:20 PM
Ne pla?ite se! Srbin će uvek ?eleti da bude 2 db glasniji od "kom?ije" :)
Tako da će kod nas uvek ostati mera napucavanja - milimetar do distorzije :D

alavuk
21-02-2009, 04:14 PM
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Jan
21-02-2009, 09:14 PM
Ne pla?ite se! Srbin će uvek ?eleti da bude 2 db glasniji od "kom?ije" :)
Tako da će kod nas uvek ostati mera napucavanja - milimetar do distorzije :D

Pa mora bude strah, kad pojedincima je dobra produkcija "da bude sto glasnije"...Glupost

Jan
21-02-2009, 09:17 PM
Gresim, VELIKOJ vecini, jos sam video slucajeve da u Sound Forge-u mere RMS i ako puca ono u -9 RMS to je ekstra

Everbeatz
21-02-2009, 09:59 PM
Ne pla?ite se! Srbin će uvek ?eleti da bude 2 db glasniji od "kom?ije" :)
Tako da će kod nas uvek ostati mera napucavanja - milimetar do distorzije :D

Oces da kazes da je loudness war nas izum?:D:D Ma neeee..

kVu
23-02-2009, 03:16 PM
Ne plašite se! Srbin će uvek želeti da bude 2 db glasniji od "komšije" :)
Tako da će kod nas uvek ostati mera napucavanja - milimetar do distorzije :D
pii... da je tako to bi bilo jos i super... ja bih pre rekao da je kod nas mera napucavanja milimetar od granice krvarenja usiju... :)

LACKY
24-02-2009, 04:28 AM
Jeste, mi smo glupi balkanci krivi za sve!
Mi smo izmslili Loudnes napucavanje.
To je cisto nas izum!
O cemu bre pricate?
Pa to smo videli od njih!
Ja ne mogu da verujem, da nas sarkazam ide dotle, da sami sebe optuzujemo!
Cak i za ono, zasta nismo krivi (verovatno zato sto i nemozemo da dostignemo to kako treba)!
Mi bi da prekinemo rat, potpisemo primirje!
Kada gubis bitku, nemozes da postavljas uslove primirja, mozes samo da bezuslovno kapituliras!

Jan
25-02-2009, 08:48 PM
Lacky skroz u pravu ko i vecinom slucajeva...

alavuk
25-02-2009, 09:00 PM
aj sad da vidimo ciji je getoblaster jaci (aparat koji je zapoceo masovnu masineriju zvanu napucavanje rms-a)

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2066/2475042905_3667924ec4_o.jpg

awacs
25-02-2009, 09:34 PM
Jeste, mi smo glupi balkanci krivi za sve!
Mi smo izmslili Loudnes napucavanje.
To je cisto nas izum!
O cemu bre pricate?
Pa to smo videli od njih!

Ma u pravu si, ali ?to si brate onu Čorbinu Radiću ?ta god hoću nasvirao ba? onoliko? Ostatak ploče je odličan 5, ali taj "opening act" je stvarno je%o kevu. Poku?ao sam da opravdam mastering (a vala i miks) idejom da pijancima ionako vazda fali punch-a, ali i posle pola kila Stomaklije sam imao potrebu da sti?am pesmu. Ali ostatak albuma - svaka čast.

Prostori, boje instrumenata - mega. Jedino ?to mi na Odlazim zasmetala ona odluka da snima? kick sa MD421, ali koga boli briga ako je dobra pesma. Sve skupa - super si posao uradio na jednom sasvim dobrom izdanju. Uostalom, bolje da otvorim novu temu na tu temu :wink:

Pozdrav

blazko
13-03-2009, 03:14 PM
pozz svima,..moze malo objasnjenje?

Sta je dinamika a sta rms? :ups: hvala unaprijed..

kravadinka
13-03-2009, 06:46 PM
RMS ti je subjektivna snaga snimka, glasnoca koja se cuje dok su pikovi digitalno dostigli 0db, to je ona razlika izmedju jedne tise i druge jace pesme dok ti VOLUME stoji na jednom istom mestu...

Dinamika je odnos najtiseg i najjaceg, najprostije receno dinamika je razlika izmedju najtiseg i najjaceg zvuka, a direktno je povezana sa RMS-om tako sto je RMS veci dinamika je manja, manja je razlika izmedju najtiseg i najglasnijeg...
Dinamika je nesto drugo ako je nevezana za ovu temu...

Braca
13-03-2009, 07:11 PM
Meni je prica sa pocetka legla ko melem na ranu, ima tu jedna mnogo vaznija stvar o kojoj covek prica, a to je emocija koju prenosi muzika, pa sad ako se napucava rms onda to moze da se poveze sa sadasnjim trenutkom duhovnog mentaliteta ljudi, a to je u sve vecoj meri agresivnost, ja to povezujem da je danasnji RMS=agresivnost, i naravno po meni to nicemu ne vodi, ali dobro to je samo moje skromno misljenje. Fala bogu da ima jos izdanja u kojim se ne npucava RMS i gde nema zloupotrebe putem masteringa